Guild Wars 2 to have simpler skills? - Page 3 - Guild Wars Forums

pumpkin pie · Jun 28, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337 H4X

I hope if someone jumps and you run into them they fall over ><

that should be possible, but someone also can dodge, if that's the case.

IlikeGW · Jun 28, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoboparty

Does Arena Net intend on dumbing down the game?

Considering the players just turn the skills into locked down flavor of the month builds in GW1, what's the difference? You're stuck using a few skills anyway.

4thVariety · Jun 28, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Medieval Combat 101:

(1) One just can't jump while wearing metal armor; or swim, or run.
(2) There is no attack in the world of melee weapons working better while jumping.
(3) The best way to fight a full armored knight is to take off all your armor, have him chase you until he is worn out, then take him down using a Bola. Then just kill the sitting duck.
(4) The goal is never to kill on the first hit, the goal is to be the first to injure your opponent. An injured leg or arm ends the fight right there.
(5) Firearm (ranged attack) wins every time.

In order to balance the different classes in GW, reality has to be discarded right from the start. One can't make an argument why something should behave in a certain way and base it on reality. Jumping in an PvP game is a binary decision. If it is best for the player to jump, he will do it all the time. If jumping has a negative impact, he will never do it.

Brett Kuntz · Jun 28, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Reality has no place in gaming, unless you are designing a Simulation. GW1 and GW2 are not simulations by any means.

Bryant Again · Jun 28, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

They're going to have fewer skills, but each skill can apparently do more than just be pressed. I can't exactly remember their example but it would be like you have a sword skill that does something different while crouching as opposed to just standing still.

Hm...After thinking about that above passage, I'm wondering how many skills we'll be having on our bar? 8 skills on a bar, each possibly having multiple ways to use it, effectively multiplying the amount of skills you have? (well, technically?)

I hope you know what you're doing, Anet...Otherwise, balance clusterENGINE away!

Angel Killuminati · Jun 28, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I was thinking about the skills last night, wondering if they would keep the same skill names or make up entirely new skill names. Surely skills like Remove Condition, Cure Hex, Remove Hex etc, will stay the same. Bot much else they can be renamed to and their actions should be similar.

If Anet decide the change the skills totally, it'll be cool to see what happens.

*Darcy* · Jun 28, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Maybe something like this from the April Fool's Skill Update. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...eloper_updates

Context-Sensitive Skills

Sandstorm: now deals 10..30 more damage if the caster is standing in a sandy area.

Equinox: Exhaustion duration is now based on the time of day.

Dwarven Battle Stance: duration is now based on the user's height.

Gladiator's Defense: duration is now doubled in Random and Team Arenas.

Game engine upgrades have allowed us to track a number of interesting statistics and data. To gauge the popularity of this new feature, Sandstorm has been changed to give a small bonus when used in an appropriate region. Similarly, Equinox will now vary its duration depending on the time (Pacific Standard). Based on the success of these changes, we expect to base other skills on terrain, location, time, and height.

Short · Jun 28, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoboparty

I heard GW2 is going to have less intricate skill combos... is this true? Does Arena Net intend on dumbing down the game?

You heard from where? Check your sources first, no one knows ANYTHING about GW2 atm.

upier · Jun 28, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

They're going to have fewer skills, but each skill can apparently do more than just be pressed. I can't exactly remember their example but it would be like you have a sword skill that does something different while crouching as opposed to just standing still.

Hm...After thinking about that above passage, I'm wondering how many skills we'll be having on our bar? 8 skills on a bar, each possibly having multiple ways to use it, effectively multiplying the amount of skills you have? (well, technically?)

I hope you know what you're doing, Anet...Otherwise, balance clusterENGINE away!

My biggest concern is that when you move away from the party-mechanic that we have in GW1 - each player needs to be able to do it all. If you don't have Alesia tagging along to heal you, you need good self-healing options. If you don't have a damage dealer tagging along - you need those options also. And if the 8 skill mechanic stays - one needs to be able to do that with just 8 skills.
Which then brings up the question - if each player is able to do it all, how does that influence PvP considering our PvP is currently class based?

Hopefully they REALLY thought this through.

Skyy High · Jun 28, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Fewer skills != simpler skills. Quite the opposite, when you think about it, as each skill will probably be filling multiple roles in different situations. Other than that, speculation is all we really have at this point.

/endthread

Bryant Again · Jun 28, 2009, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My biggest concern is that when you move away from the party-mechanic that we have in GW1 - each player needs to be able to do it all. If you don't have Alesia tagging along to heal you, you need good self-healing options. If you don't have a damage dealer tagging along - you need those options also. And if the 8 skill mechanic stays - one needs to be able to do that with just 8 skills.
Which then brings up the question - if each player is able to do it all, how does that influence PvP considering our PvP is currently class based?

Hopefully they REALLY thought this through.

In general it's gonna have to depend on how the PvE encounters are set-up and/or scaled. It might be where you just fight one monster at a time or a bunch of little guys at once.

Then there's the other little system they talked about where you get to have an AI partner with you. If you're a healer archetype you could have like a Warrior partner with you and vice versa if you're a Warrior. Could be interesting and sounds a bit similar to The Old Republic's partner buddy thingie.

All this points to a dramatically different game, though, which at this point is both good and bad. I usually want a different flavor (but same brands) from my sequels unless the original nails it REALLY good, and GW1 didn't do it so well.

Boba Chick · Jun 28, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

New skill system for gw2:

[Rock]: Defeats scissors

[Paper]: Defeats rock

[Scissors]: Defeats paper

there, plain and simple, and perfectly balanced

Tender Wolf · Jun 28, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

lol Boba Chick.

That was good.

Anyway, here's a question - with all the talk about jumping, running, etc. effecting skills, how is that "simpler"? And upier makes a good point with the whole bring damage and healing all by yourself thing - I don't think that's simpler, as you'd have to do the job of yourself and all heroes/henchmen. But that's just me.

Bryant Again · Jun 28, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

If it's 1 person vs. a whole mob, then yeah I'd think it'd be tough.

But it's gonna be quite an easier task when it's just you vs. a couple, kind of like Pre-searing.

Chthon · Jun 29, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

It obvious that anet and pretty much everyone saw this:

If you give people choice, they will not choose wisely and end up sucking and running dumb stuff.

There are about ~ 20 monk skills that make red bars go up on single target, but about only 4 being any good copared to rest. There is whooping 80% chance someone will choose of the other 16 gimping himself in process.

If ther are only one or two skills that makes red bars go up, you solved problem of monks choosing sucky bar because they can not choose to have bad bar.

And that is same for all the classes.

That's a pretty good summary of one of the worst design flaws in GW right there. They made a game that it's super easy to be terrible at.

THey seem to have realized that and they're trying to fix it in GW2. The big question is whether they'll be able to make it harder to make a terrible skillbar without also making it impossible to make a superior skillbar.

Improvavel · Jun 29, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

My biggest concern is that when you move away from the party-mechanic that we have in GW1 - each player needs to be able to do it all. If you don't have Alesia tagging along to heal you, you need good self-healing options. If you don't have a damage dealer tagging along - you need those options also. And if the 8 skill mechanic stays - one needs to be able to do that with just 8 skills.
Which then brings up the question - if each player is able to do it all, how does that influence PvP considering our PvP is currently class based?

Hopefully they REALLY thought this through.

I just hope no potions...

Jun 28, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38	#47
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Maybe something like this from the April Fool's Skill Update. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Arena...eloper_updates Context-Sensitive Skills Sandstorm: now deals 10..30 more damage if the caster is standing in a sandy area. Equinox: Exhaustion duration is now based on the time of day. Dwarven Battle Stance: duration is now based on the user's height. Gladiator's Defense: duration is now doubled in Random and Team Arenas. Game engine upgrades have allowed us to track a number of interesting statistics and data. To gauge the popularity of this new feature, Sandstorm has been changed to give a small bonus when used in an appropriate region. Similarly, Equinox will now vary its duration depending on the time (Pacific Standard). Based on the success of these changes, we expect to base other skills on terrain, location, time, and height. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Jun 28, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43	#43
4thVariety Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: European Union Guild: ADL Profession: E/	Medieval Combat 101: (1) One just can't jump while wearing metal armor; or swim, or run. (2) There is no attack in the world of melee weapons working better while jumping. (3) The best way to fight a full armored knight is to take off all your armor, have him chase you until he is worn out, then take him down using a Bola. Then just kill the sitting duck. (4) The goal is never to kill on the first hit, the goal is to be the first to injure your opponent. An injured leg or arm ends the fight right there. (5) Firearm (ranged attack) wins every time. In order to balance the different classes in GW, reality has to be discarded right from the start. One can't make an argument why something should behave in a certain way and base it on reality. Jumping in an PvP game is a binary decision. If it is best for the player to jump, he will do it all the time. If jumping has a negative impact, he will never do it.

Jun 28, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55	#44
Brett Kuntz Core Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	Reality has no place in gaming, unless you are designing a Simulation. GW1 and GW2 are not simulations by any means.

Jun 28, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03	#45
Bryant Again Hall Hero Join Date: Feb 2006	They're going to have fewer skills, but each skill can apparently do more than just be pressed. I can't exactly remember their example but it would be like you have a sword skill that does something different while crouching as opposed to just standing still. Hm...After thinking about that above passage, I'm wondering how many skills we'll be having on our bar? 8 skills on a bar, each possibly having multiple ways to use it, effectively multiplying the amount of skills you have? (well, technically?) I hope you know what you're doing, Anet...Otherwise, balance clusterENGINE away!

Jun 28, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20	#46
Angel Killuminati Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK	I was thinking about the skills last night, wondering if they would keep the same skill names or make up entirely new skill names. Surely skills like Remove Condition, Cure Hex, Remove Hex etc, will stay the same. Bot much else they can be renamed to and their actions should be similar. If Anet decide the change the skills totally, it'll be cool to see what happens.

Jun 28, 2009, 09:31 PM // 21:31	#50
Skyy High Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2006 Profession: R/	Fewer skills != simpler skills. Quite the opposite, when you think about it, as each skill will probably be filling multiple roles in different situations. Other than that, speculation is all we really have at this point. /endthread

Jun 28, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12	#52
Boba Chick Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal	New skill system for gw2: [Rock]: Defeats scissors [Paper]: Defeats rock [Scissors]: Defeats paper there, plain and simple, and perfectly balanced

Jun 28, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38	#53
Tender Wolf Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona Guild: The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN] Profession: R/	lol Boba Chick. That was good. Anyway, here's a question - with all the talk about jumping, running, etc. effecting skills, how is that "simpler"? And upier makes a good point with the whole bring damage and healing all by yourself thing - I don't think that's simpler, as you'd have to do the job of yourself and all heroes/henchmen. But that's just me.

Jun 28, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54	#54
Bryant Again Hall Hero Join Date: Feb 2006	If it's 1 person vs. a whole mob, then yeah I'd think it'd be tough. But it's gonna be quite an easier task when it's just you vs. a couple, kind of like Pre-searing.